Map Masher Marshall
So I got on BBC Radio 5 Live in the end then.
Cheers to Chris Vallance from the blogs & podcast section of ‘Up All Night‘ for talking to me, and I suspect at somepoint it may appear as a podcast on PocketPlanetRadio too.
In the meantime, if you missed it - you can hear me here. [2Mb .mp3 file]
Also in the meantime, I’ve altered my pages here - as linking to things that exist on other peoples sites can’t get me in ‘trouble’ can it? Of course not.
Oh, and good morning to TFL & solicitors if you’re reading this. Nice to have you with us again today.
After living in London for the first 33 years of my life and working for the 
So for ten weeks in June, July and August 2009, I drove 20,000 miles around the the lower 48 contiguous states of the USA visiting towns and places that shared the same name as places on The London
March 14th, 2006 at 6:11 am
Oh good, they haven’t exterminated you!
March 14th, 2006 at 8:14 am
I’m glad you’re still online at least!
March 14th, 2006 at 8:19 am
Listened to the R5 PodCast, well done!
March 14th, 2006 at 9:14 am
Were i a grafitti artist (i am not), i would be tempted to go around the stations tagging the un-CCTVed areas with a version of the Roundel with the word “Underhanded” instead of Underground.
I’d make this as a stencil in PDF form for people to print out and do just this, or have the logo on their website, but i can do without the legal hastle…. lol
(Ps. Versions of the Roundel with the slogan Underhanded are copyright of me and any reproduction will make my mother cry, you cads)
March 14th, 2006 at 9:25 am
Another mirror up
http://www.catwreck.com/sillytube.html
And a zip filed copy of everything
http://www.catwreck.com/geoff-files/moretubemaps.zip
March 14th, 2006 at 9:26 am
Oh, and the same friend as is hosting the above added this -
http://www.jigzone.com/ms/z.php?ui=621146082i2187285&z=67_piece_classic
hehehe!
March 14th, 2006 at 10:38 am
#5 - Ha ha ha! Excellent! I need to go to lab - you just wasted fifteen whole minutes of my time!
Geoff - well done on the 5 Live thing! The maps page is legendary.
March 14th, 2006 at 1:45 pm
Why doesnt any of the silly maps stuff appear anymore?…not even the new page you replaced it with
March 14th, 2006 at 1:47 pm
#3 - He’s not The Messiah………he’s a very naughty boy!
March 14th, 2006 at 1:50 pm
Right, well now I’ve taken the whole of /tube and /tubechallenge off line.
It would seem that me saying “Hey all these mirrors are available” is in ‘breach’ because Im advertising where copyrighted material is available.
So they’ve been in touch with my ISP this morning, who have in turn been in touch with me, who said that they would have to take me down by 6pm this evening if I didn’t remove that page.
So everything’s offline at the moment, and I’ll bring it back at somepoint when I can be arsed. I’ve got better fucking things to do with my time now than piss around with this.
The mirrors are out there, it’s all been blogged on various sites sufficiently for people to know about, I don’t need to advertise them anymore. There are now more copies of these maps online now than there were this time last week. And I think that says it all.
March 14th, 2006 at 1:58 pm
What a bunch of twats … remind me of the management here!
March 14th, 2006 at 2:31 pm
They have no right to take down the non-copyrighted stuff, whatever happens. I know it’s a pain in the arse, but you could have left them up and then kicked up a fuss when the whole site was removed.
March 14th, 2006 at 2:42 pm
Wow, they *really* want to make enemies of us all, don’t they?
Do you get the blame if your visitors happen to link to mirror sites in their comments? *whistles*
Personally, I’m starting to reconsider how often I’ll need to buy a travelcard in the next few months - I’ll only be in London intermittently and most places are within walking distance of my route’s rail stations, so do I really need to spend the extra money each time when I know it’s being wasted on stuff like this? For once I’m pleased to live near a South East Trains station instead of a tube station!
March 14th, 2006 at 3:00 pm
Well they clearly don’t like and underestimated the fact that there would be such a backlash and that people would go round making mirror sites of mine.
Not that I can mention the copies/mirrors that people are making of course
I know nothing about those …
March 14th, 2006 at 3:35 pm
That’s just bloody typical! Just when I thought TfL were a reasonably decent company too…
I feel like shutting down my website, which is supposed to promote the Tube and for which I receive no money, just out of principal. At least before they try and shut it down themselves…
Arse!
March 14th, 2006 at 5:01 pm
I wonder if they are now going after Google for caching all of the “silly tube map” images on their image search?
March 14th, 2006 at 6:25 pm
I accept it was 2.00 in the morning, but count the number of “um’s” Geoff/Jeff/Geff uses!
On the other hand though, great interview Geoff but I would have slated TFL a little more!
March 14th, 2006 at 7:37 pm
I always say “umm” a lot in real life - thanks for pointing that out Paul!
It’s also worth bearing in mind that I said a lot more, but the whole thing was edited down to the 6 minutes that it is!
The BBC also have to be fair, and they have to have my point of view, followed by TFL’s statement from their point of view.
And it’s true .. it’s amazing what happens if you go and Google the world “sillymaps” right now. Not that i’m suggesting you go and do that of course, oh no, deary me! Far from it …
March 14th, 2006 at 7:40 pm
Dear Geoff.
We are sorry to confirm, but you are using the same type of white background as we at TfL do. Please make sure you close your site down before the 16th of march 2006, otherwise we will sue you.
You can also buy a certificate from us for £150 a year so you can share our type of white backgound.
March 14th, 2006 at 8:54 pm
Um’s are good - makes it easier to listen to. Apart from that big long messy one they didn’t cut.
Listen to any Radio News broadcast and you can hear all the edits…
March 14th, 2006 at 10:06 pm
Just another message of support. Here’s hoping you manage to work something out - personally I’d have been tempted to call their bluff for a little longer, but of course it’s easy to say that when it’s not you being threatened. I have of course mirrored your maps page.
Do you plan to put the tube challenge pages back up at some point?
March 14th, 2006 at 10:42 pm
TFL…
Total Fucking Leeches
Twat Faced Lawyers
March 14th, 2006 at 10:46 pm
So, you break the world record for visiting all 275 London Underground stations in the fastest time, and TfL’s response is to ask you to remove all the relevant pages about your record-breaking attempts from your website?
Totally
fucking
Loathsome
March 14th, 2006 at 10:57 pm
Just a thought - “someone” needs to get the maps loaded onto a P2P network, and then start a campaign to get them circulating. That will get them FAR and WIDE!!!
I can just imagine the headlines….. “TFL raid P2P server in Germany over hosting of links to Sillymaps”
March 14th, 2006 at 10:58 pm
#25 - Now that’s a great idea! But I probably can’t say anything to encourage that. I probably shouldn’t even breathe really.
“Dear Geoff .. you appear to be breathing in air, which our passengers have to use each day on there journeys in our cramped carriages. Pleast stop breathing immediately…”
March 14th, 2006 at 10:59 pm
Have you tried contacting any papers over this story? Metro would be a good paper to get the story in, as it’s mainly read by tube users!
March 14th, 2006 at 11:00 pm
#SK - Metro’s transport page is just the mouthpiece of TFL though! That’s why you never see anything bad about the tube in there .. I don’t think they’d go for it at all.
I did speak to the Evening Standard - because we all know how much they love cuddly Uncle Ken & Co. - and they almost (but didn’t) go for it. Shame.
March 14th, 2006 at 11:57 pm
Well it’s disappointing that Geofftech’s ISP, Claranet, would choose to buckle so easily under empty legal threats. It’s disappointing to know that Claranet’s decision was also made without reference to a lawyer to consider the evidence at hand. I would suggest to any and all readers that Claranet is not an ISP you would want hosting your website if you intend to link to information that you do not hold the copyright on!
(Hint: aren’t all links on the internet to sites you don’t hold the copyright on?)
To SK and anyone else, don’t wait for Geoff or anyone else to spread the word on this. Write letters, write to your MP or London Assembly representative, write to Ken, write to Transport for London and protest this in the strongest possible terms. Inform your local rags, inform your national press and speak to your friends.
March 15th, 2006 at 12:44 am
Oooh, I’ve been BoingBoing’d again. Excellent!
Anyway - this one isn’t finished yet folks - I was a little down about this yesterday, but not today - and have got a few things on the go now, which may mean we haven’t heard the end of this yet.
Watch this space … !
March 15th, 2006 at 1:16 am
I just wanted to weigh in with a little support. I have only visited London a few times (mostly when I was competing in the Henley on Thames Royal Regatta for my crew team) but I love your city. I have a personal love for all public rail transport and have happily journeyed on them in London, New York, Boston, Paris, and Chicago (now my home). People in these cities take an inordinate amount of pride in their public transportation. Lovingly referring to them as the Metro, Tube, El, Subway, T, etc. etc. I loved bombing around London on the Tube and consider it second only to NYC for ease of use and city coverage. I have been passively following the map mashups on BBoing for a while now. I cannot even fathom why anyone would want to squelch these maps.
I don’t even live in your country and I find myself admiring the Tube. I just spent the last hour reading about Harry Beck and the Tube map after listening to your radio piece. I am impressed that his representation for the Tube or something close to it has seemingly become the de facto standard for all subway systems internationally.
So without getting any more long winded I just wanted to say “good luck and good job” as a foreign appreciator. If you can’t get any love from your own public transport just know that there are others out there rooting for you. Thanks for all the free culture!
March 15th, 2006 at 1:36 am
Been following your troubles from Florida via Boing Boing. Good luck, mate. Surely you’ll ditch your ISP when all this settles down, no?
March 15th, 2006 at 3:10 am
Will talk to my ISP again during office hours tomorrow (currently working nightshifts, hence why awake at 3am our time here!) and will sort something out. Hopefully.
March 15th, 2006 at 7:48 am
#31 - “I loved bombing around London on the Tube…”
I suspect you didn’t realise quite how that could sound when you typed it!
March 15th, 2006 at 8:55 am
I can just barely understand why TfL wouldn’t be happy with the silly maps, but why they’re targeting the Tube Challenge pages is totally beyond me. Guess they’re going to go after Simon Patterson and the Tate now. Should be fun to watch.
All the best from a Dutch friend of all things London, Tube and tube map-related
March 15th, 2006 at 9:40 am
Havent TFL learned anything? If you act all heavy handed on the internet all that happens is more people become interested and it turns into a freedom of speech issue.
Is there any way of telling Tfl how we all feel?
Keep up the good work. Its only a matter of time before the papers come to you anyway.
March 15th, 2006 at 9:52 am
Geoff, it sounds like you should switch from Claranet to me. An ISP that doesn’t defend its customers against threats with no base in law doesn’t deserve to have customers.
March 15th, 2006 at 11:20 am
Hey, that’s not a studio!
March 15th, 2006 at 11:36 am
Hi Geoff, I have used your tube maps before and was disgusted to hear about what TfL are up to.
I managed to snag those maps yesterday just before you took them down. I have them up and many more will follow suit… The flood gates are now open!
I have also created a roundel with ‘BULLY’ written across it (albiet not
in New Johnston) that i’ll be posting around too.
I am so annoyed by these bully-boy tactics… I bet some back-office
solicitor really had his horn on.
You’d think ‘he’ would of got over his playground bullying by now… *sigh*
I keep thinking we should have an ‘Anti-Bullying Act’ which says that
poorer defendants should have a handicap based on the proportion of the
earnings of both parties when things get legal - maybe one to campaign for in the future.
Anyway, behind you all the way. I hope to see them back on here some time soon.
March 15th, 2006 at 12:26 pm
I hadn’t heard of this site two days ago, but I happened to hear you on Radio Five the night before last, and I’ve been following the story ever since. It’s shocking to see a company that has received so much support and good publicity from this site reward it with threats and bullying. Shutting down a harmless labour of love in some sudden litigious spasm is something no company should be allowed to get away with, and I sincerely hope that the strength of feeling this generates can persuade them to relent.
On the bright side, if it wasn’t for this controversy, then I (and I suspect many others) would never have come across this site. The remixed maps are a work of genius… I’ve even been inspired to try my hand at an anagram version of the Merseyrail Network map! Who would have imagined that Hamilton Square was an anagram of Harlequin Atoms?
The very best of luck to you in restoring the site to its former glory, and congratulations on such innovative work.
March 15th, 2006 at 12:58 pm
How much have your site hits gone up since this recent event, Geoff?
March 15th, 2006 at 1:54 pm
Claranet’s reaction to TFL is disgraceful. May I suggest having a look at someone like Zen who don’t jerk their knees?
March 15th, 2006 at 2:24 pm
Sadly Claranet could shut down your site for no other reason than because they didn’t like it. The people saying “they have no right” are wrong. They do.
They shouldn’t, but they do.
Sounds like you need to change host…
March 15th, 2006 at 2:38 pm
Here’s what Healy’s (who I believe are TfL’s solicitors) have to say about their work in this area:
====
Media/Intellectual Property: Department Overview
Healys focuses on providing commercially sensible
Really? What’s remotely sensible, commercial or otherwise, about this action?
and legally astute solutions to media-related intellectual property issues. Clarity and agreement with copyright ownership is vital and Healys will untangle and consolidate such rights issues quickly and clearly to enable protection for the owner.
Healys can provide quick, cost-effective agreements to add certainty to any negotiations but also understand the need to maintain business relationships in a personality-based industry.
Translation:” We won’t sue people if it would be counterproductive by getting them pissed off with us.” Unfortunately they assume that this only applies to people with influence in “the business” and hence believe they can threaten Geoff with impunity.
We understand the architecture of structured commercial deals in the media. Healys anticipates partnering clients until funding is in place and providing the necessary comfort to enable funders to green-light projects. We also have a wide array of contacts within the media industry and we are not afraid to synergize where necessary.
Someone must have been playing Buzzword Bingo here. The word “synergise” has become such a joke that it’s even got through to the PHBs that they’re not making themselves sound big and clever by using it.
====
Anyway, I wait with bated breath to see what Geoff has up his sleeve next.
March 15th, 2006 at 3:04 pm
Oh that’s just complete fucking bollocks.
March 15th, 2006 at 6:34 pm
Answers to a few things …
Right, well I wasn’t going to say it, but because someone else has worked it out, YES - Healys (based in Brighton) are indeed TFL’s solicitors. I am somewhat in stiches at the speil on their website! Classic.
I’ve also had three other press/media enquiries today, which will all come out over the next couple of days. And am still working on another avenue which I don’t want to talk about yet, because it’ll give the game away.
My hits HAVE gone through the roof Andrew! Stat-wise, I normally get about 3,000-4,000 page impression per day, this went up to 7,000 on Sunday, 14,000 on Monday, and then 15,000 on Tuesday. There was also a healthy amount of gigabytes of data downloaded on the Monday as everyone took copies of the maps!
I should stress though, that i don’t really look at my stats though - I’m not a stats person. I know that some people might accuse me of being all “look at me!” on my website, but all I do is quietly shove content up on my site without a fuss - just as I did with the maps - and I don’t push it or advertise it, I just let it be.
If people want to look at it - fine. If they don’t - also fine. Which is another thing that hacks me off about this situation - I am just a humble one man, self-funded website, who is getting ‘picked on’ (for a want of a better phrase!)
March 16th, 2006 at 8:03 am
I fully support your campaign. In fact I have asked TFL to remove my image from their advertising campaigns as it was taken without my knowledge:
http://solo2.abac.com/themole/father_christmas_underground.jpg
And they won’t be getting any presents this year either, the tossers.
March 16th, 2006 at 9:04 am
LOL! I agree, Santa. They photographed you in such a compromising situation as well.
March 16th, 2006 at 10:06 am
“El Reg” have picked up on this too. See their version of the story HERE
March 16th, 2006 at 10:14 am
What about this lot then? Wonder if they’ve had a missive too…
http://london-underground.de/blu/index.html
March 16th, 2006 at 11:02 am
Do a Google seach for “tube map” (without quotes). Geoff comes in at #5,
while #7 … “Content removed at the request of Healeys Solicitors…”
March 16th, 2006 at 11:39 am
I see someone’s put a whole bunch of related merchandise on Cafépress, too. Mug looks nice.
March 16th, 2006 at 1:00 pm
I’ll do something special with this for you mate . . .
Yuo know me, always have good idea, wait and see I am sure you’ll enjoy what I planned.
Take Care
March 16th, 2006 at 1:18 pm
Simon. Would it be ironic if that could raise enough to pay for a licence?
March 16th, 2006 at 3:13 pm
Firstly, I’m not saying that I agree with TfL for doing this, but there is no question that TfL are correct, and they do own the copyright on the Tube Map. Throughout most of the world, via the Berne Convention. And the maps hosted here were breaching that copyright.
As for linking to copyrighted material - well, as someone said, all material is copyrighted. But I can see what your hosts mean. And you’ve very likely breached their T&C’s, so if they wanted to pull the whole site down, they’re more than welcome to, whether the other stuff is your copyright or not.
There we go, that’s my, probably rather unpopular, 2p.
March 16th, 2006 at 9:59 pm
It’s amazing that TfL can’t see that a site like yours is essentially just good publicity for them… even the “rude map”…
I wonder how much of my tax money they’ve wasted on taking you down - this the legal equivalent of “happy slapping”…
Hope you manage to shame them into capitulating!
March 19th, 2006 at 11:25 am
The cafepress has been removed already :
Tubemap Store
___________________________________
Closed by TFL after less than a day’s trading.
Thanks, guys.
March 20th, 2006 at 4:35 pm
Hey Geoff,
Great site, I’ll be ripping off your 50p iPodness very soon in the cunning guise of “Send me a Quarter”…
Anyway, as an expat Brit based here in the US, I’m shocked by the response of your ISP to all this.
Let me know if you’re looking for an alternative host, as I have my own server and a bunch of GB going spare. You can hide across the pond on a private server for free, if you like!
Cheers,
Dino
March 21st, 2006 at 10:22 am
I’m a volunteer ambulance officer and my wife is a doctor volunteering as a Medical Incident Officer with the statutory ambulance services, including London. I think that some of your maps will prove very useful for both casual enquiries we get from the public when at major events and for planning deployments in an emergency, and I will be putting them in our emergency documentation packs. I have tried getting maps in the past from TFL, to no avail, so the link from The Register mentioning your plight was very opportune.
I hope this silver lining to your current cloud is a small bit of comfort.
Charles
March 21st, 2006 at 10:41 am
Sometimes you really have to question if the PR and lawyers of these companies realise just how stupid action like this makes them look.
March 21st, 2006 at 10:53 am
“Is there any way of telling Tfl how we all feel?”
Yes: https://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/contact_form.shtml